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AW: Direct solar radiation Type 56

Hello Robert,
when I talk of a fictive window I mean the 
window 10001 oft the German w4lib:

Unit System : SI
Name        : TRNSYS 14.2 WINDOW LIB
Desc        : Keine Glasscheibe = offen
Window ID   : 10001

with a size e.g. 1 m² so the effect you mentioned will be small.

Cheers Torsten

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Robert Himmler [mailto:himmler@igs.bau.tu-bs.de] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Juli 2003 09:22
An: trnsys@relay.doit.wisc.edu
Betreff: AW: Direct solar radiation Type 56


Hallo Torsten,

I am currently simulating an atrium with 4 zones. If the two bottom zones are considered to be adjacent to the top zone there will be a heat transfer via the internal glazing. I guess that the results would be wrong.

Cheers

Robert

*************************************************************

Steinbeis-Transferzentrum Energie-, Gebäude- und Solartechnik TU Braunschweig - Institut für Gebäude- und Solartechnik Dipl.-Ing. Robert Himmler Mühlenpfordtstr. 23 38106 Braunschweig

Tel 0531/391-3563
Fax 0531/391-8125

robert.himmler@stz-egs.de
himmler@igs.bau.tu-bs.de

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: owner-trnsys@relay.doit.wisc.edu 
> [mailto:owner-trnsys@relay.doit.wisc.edu]Im Auftrag von hotline
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2003 11:28
> An: trnsys@relay.doit.wisc.edu
> Betreff: AW: Direct solar radiation Type 56
>
>
> Hello Christian and Michaël,
>
> sorry Michaël but this is not correct.
>
> With geosurf You can only distribute the direct solar radiation 
> through 1 internal window and then to all surfaces in the second zone 
> e.g. the office with a double facade. After a second internal window 
> radiation is considered to be diffuse so Geosurf
> wont work for the third zone.
>
> If you want to do that like in a Atrium with 4 Zones you have to add 
> at the 2 bottom zones a fictive internal window which is adjacent to 
> the top zone.
>
> cheers
> Torsten Welfonder
>
>
> Mailto:Hotline@transsolar.com; http://www.transsolar.com
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> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Michaël Kummert [mailto:kummert@engr.wisc.edu]
> Gesendet: Montag, 21. Juli 2003 16:22
> An: trnsys@relay.doit.wisc.edu
> Betreff: Re: Direct solar radiation Type 56
>
>
> The way I understand transmission through internal windows in Type 56, 
> it is possible to have some direct solar radiation transmitted through 
> several internal windows. However, your building (or whatever you want 
> to simulate with Type 56) must be very special if that happens in 
> reality. Assuming Type 56 really allows you to transmit direct 
> radiation through 5 successive windows, I am not sure the results 
> would be meaningful. You may need to use a different model (i.e. to 
> write one yourself) to model the radiative exchanges more accurately. 
> In any case I would run some simple steady-state cases and check the 
> results.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michaël Kummert
>
> sim@energiebuero-berlin.de wrote:
>
> >Thank you Michaël,
> >but does Geosurf also work if I have 5 zones after each other, not 
> >only two like a double fassade? Is it possible to let direct solar 
> >radiation
> from outside pass trough first,
> >second, third and fourth zone and being absorbed on a surface in
> the fifth zone?
> >By Christian
> >
> >
> >
> >On 18 Jul 2003 at 12:05, Michaël Kummert wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Dear Christian,
> >>If you are using TRNSYS 15, Type 56 allows you to model internal 
> >>windows. You can also use the "GEOSURF" feature to control the 
> >>distribution of incoming direct solar radiation. For instance, if 
> >>you have a double façade building and the "inner skin" of the façade 
> >>is fully glazed, you would typically set GEOSURF to 1 for the
> internal window.
> >>Please note that if you use very special windows you may have to 
> >>tweak the transmittance of the internal window to obtain meaningful 
> >>results (for instance, assume that a window has a transmittance of 1 
> >>in
> one part
> >>of the radiation spectrum and 0 in the other part, resulting in an 
> >>overall transmission of 0.6. If you put 2 windows in series, the 
> >>transmittance modeled by Type56 will be 0.6*0.6=0.36, while the 
> >>"real" transmittance is 0.6 - you cannot filter the same part of the 
> >>spectrum twice!).
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Michaël Kummert
> >>
> >>sim@energiebuero-berlin.de wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Dear TRNSYS-Users,
> >>>I want to model a house, where a part of the incoming direct solar 
> >>>radiation is absorbed by a wall and another part of this direct 
> >>>radiation "flows" into the next (adjacent) zone and is absorbed 
> >>>there. Is it possible to let solar direct radiation stream through 
> >>>one zone into another? Thanks for help!
> >>>Christian Stolte
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>energiebüro
> >>>Adalbertstr. 7-8
> >>>10999 Berlin
> >>>t: 030-68056011
> >>>f: 030-68056013
> >>>www.energiebuero-berlin.de
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>_________________________________________________
> >>
> >>Michaël Kummert
> >>
> >>Solar Energy Laboratory - University of Wisconsin-Madison 1303 Engr 
> >>Res Bldg, 1500 Engineering Drive Madison, WI 53706
> >>
> >>Tel: +1 (608) 263-1589
> >>Fax: +1 (608) 262-8464
> >>E-mail: kummert@engr.wisc.edu
> >>
> >>SEL Web Site: http://sel.me.wisc.edu
> >>TRNSYS Web Site: http://sel.me.wisc.edu/trnsys
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> _________________________________________________
>
> Michaël Kummert
>
> Solar Energy Laboratory - University of Wisconsin-Madison 1303 Engr 
> Res Bldg, 1500 Engineering Drive Madison, WI 53706
>
> Tel: +1 (608) 263-1589
> Fax: +1 (608) 262-8464
> E-mail: kummert@engr.wisc.edu
>
> SEL Web Site: http://sel.me.wisc.edu
> TRNSYS Web Site: http://sel.me.wisc.edu/trnsys
>